From managing people to managing AI: The leadership skills everyone needs now | Julie Zhuo (Facebook VP, Sundial CEO, The Making of a Manager author)

We're seeing this kind of flattening of orgs, everyone's becoming an IC again. It used to be, okay, I don't have the skills to do ten different jobs. But now with AI allows me to do many of those jobs myself. We need to dissolve the boundaries of these traditional roles and call ourselves builders. I'd love for us to get to a world where that's the title. That Google let go of so many of their middle managers. Management is still really critical. You have a North Star, you have a vision, and you're just trying to figure out how to use the resources that you have to get that thing done. Biggest change in the role in life of a manager these days. It's always been manager's job to manage change. I just think the rate of change is accelerating. Today management is really about this idea of be sturdy while being flexible. So I think about this metaphor a lot of the willow tree. It can survive a lot of storms, disasters, etc. But it's also very flexible. You have such an interesting trajectory from being head of design to now being obsessed with data and analytics. You want to diagnose with data and treat with design. Data is not a tool that's gonna tell you what you should build. I don't actually think a lot of the fast growing companies are using data well at this point. Traditionally, things just didn't grow that fast. These companies are totally getting by on just good instincts and good vibes, but what always happens is eventually things stop growing.

Today, my guest is Julie Zoo. Julie was my first ever guest on this podcast, which I recorded over three years ago. So this is a very special conversation. As I've shared many times before in other places, Julie's newsletter, The Looking Glass, was the inspiration for my newsletter. And Basically led to everything that I do now.

If you're not familiar with Julie, she was the longtime head of design for the Facebook app, used by over three billion people. She's also the author of the best selling and very important book. The making of a manager. And most recently, she started her own company, Sundial, which is an AI powered analyst used by companies like OpenAI, Gamma, and Character AI. Julie is one of the most thoughtful and insightful product leaders that I've ever come across.

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