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Behavioral Grooves Podcast · 2026-06-15 · 78 min · 12,992 words

The Common Trap Companies Fall For | Phil Le-Brun & Jana Werner

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Welcome to Behavioral Groups. I'm Kurt Nelson and I'm Tim Hoolahan. So Tim. Today's conversation. It's one of those episodes that starts out feeling like a discussion about organizations and technology. Then it suddenly turns into

Much. Deeper conversation. About what it means to be human at work. Yeah, yeah, because our guests today, Phil LeBron and Yana Verner are

Are asking a deceptively simple question. And that question is Why do so many organizations become rigid? bureaucratic and painfully slow, even when the people inside them are smart, capable, and trying to do good work. And their answer. I don't know. I think it's kind of fascinating. They argue

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