All episodes of The Michael Shermer Show

The Michael Shermer Show · 2025-12-06 · 104 min · 16,632 words

The Emergent Mind: From Ant Colonies to Human Thought to Artificial Intelligence

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When I started in this field, I was befuddled by consciousness and I remained befuddled by consciousness, right? So the hard problem of consciousness is how is it possible that transfer of sodium, potassium, and other ions across membranes can lead to the subjective experience of me looking at you like I open my eyes and I'm surrounded by this 3D movie. Where's the movie coming from? It's not playing in my head because nobody's watching anything in my head. All I have are

patterns of electricity and yet I have the subjective experience. Can you imagine our brains are no longer the smartest thing on the planet and what will that mean for humanity? There's ways in which we're already there in terms of the answer to your question. So there are artificial, somewhat neural network-based systems that are now capable of learning through self-play how to find strategies that no human being ever discovered for playing games like Chess or Go, and that it's sort of hard to imagine any sort of human being with our biological limitations, which in many ways ex are very different from the limitations of artificial systems, catching up with those kinds of artificial systems.

So I don't think that it's it's like an eye, you know, like a singularity or not. I think it's more like there's many, many ways in which machines are going to have capabilities and there's many, many ways in which humans have capabilities. I think it's extremely likely that there won't be any particular capabilities that we have that machines can't have. We conceive of the mind as an emergent phenomena.

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