Creative collaboration with Jon Batiste and Suleika Jaouad

I love the idea of thinking about music as energy and as frequency. There's such an interesting cross-pollination when you collaborate with artists across different disciplines. So John, for example, will play me a list of songs and ask me how he should sequence them and I'll say, what is the narrative arc here? And I'm thinking of it from a writer's mind.

Sometimes I'll show John a draft and he'll say the rhythm of this sentence isn't landing. And that feedback is so eye-opening and expansive and has fundamentally changed the way that I think about how to write a sentence. Hey everyone, it's Adam Grant. Welcome back to Rethinking, my podcast with Ted on the science of what makes us tick. I'm an organizational psychologist, and I'm taking you inside the minds of fascinating people to explore new thoughts and new ways of thinking.

Grammy-winning musician John Baptiste and Emmy-winning writer Suleika Jawad have a creative partnership unlike any other I've seen. And it's not just because they're married and they've been friends since they were kids. As artists, their individual practices are in conversation with each other, and the structures and language of their mediums inform their work. Their ability to create and learn from each other has helped them through tough times, like Suleika's battle against cancer. We've talked about the notion of survival being its own kind of

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